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Subject Topic: EULA update Post ReplyPost New Topic
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jdale
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Posted: 05/01/2008 at 9:10am | IP Logged Quote jdale

I think an important issue is the omission of section 2.e. from the old EULA. I assume the intent here was to remove the limitations on commercial use, but the original 2.e. also contained this (note that the current 2.e. was previously 2.f.):

"then you may use the Software Product to create and publish maps and adventures for commercial purposes provided that all art assets and graphics included in such maps and adventures have been created by you personally or come from general commercial graphics creation programs (such as Adobe Photoshop and CorelDraw) or public domain artwork and the text portion of the adventure does not use any portion of the style and formatting provided by the Software Product;"

Now parts of that are clearly irrelevant now. But, this is the section that would have granted permission to use your own art in board games, computer games, etc, and it has been omitted from the new EULA.

It would be nice to have more clarity on the definition of "Tabletop Gaming" vs "Board Game" but I think (with no legal training) that the explanations and examples given by DE would carry some weight there so that is less of an issue.

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Kepli
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Posted: 05/05/2008 at 1:24am | IP Logged Quote Kepli

Nice to see you on the forums again JDale



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jdale
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Posted: 05/06/2008 at 11:05am | IP Logged Quote jdale

I stop in occasionally. There's just too much to catch up on. Now if someone updated the CSUAC... heck, I would pay for a DVD of all the user art if it was classified and organized.

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Kepli
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Posted: 05/06/2008 at 12:10pm | IP Logged Quote Kepli

Cecil is working on it again

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Yahzi
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Posted: 08/17/2008 at 11:53am | IP Logged Quote Yahzi

Mindy wrote:
If you're not sure whether your intended use falls within the license, you should contact webmaster@dundjinni.com with your specific questions.

No, I'm sorry, if I'm not sure whether my intended use falls within the license, I'm just not going to use your product.

I've been thinking about buying Dundjinni for years. I love the concept. But if I want to use one of my adventures in one of my novels, or vice versa, suddenly I have a problem. And board games - 4e is practically a board game already. I can publish maps for D&D but not for D&D Minis?

I understand you're trying to protect your IP. However, you've successfully protected your IP into obscurity. Every time I come back to this site I am disappointed by how small the community remains. Remember the Macintosh? Closed box. 5% of the market. Remember the PC? Open box. 95% of the market. There's a lesson in there somewhere...

Of course, the people who invented the PC didn't particularly profit off of the PC design. On the other hand, they made a lot of profit selling parts, applications, and operating systems. Dundjinni could make a lot of money selling art-packs to millions of wanna-be designers. A lot more than selling their program to a handful of people.

Google DAZ. Notice that they give their modeling software away for free. They have a completely open commercial license (I know, because my wife sells images she generates with their product). They make their money on selling models, meshes, textures, and objects. You know... art packs.

They're making a lot of money. How much money are you making? I don't know, but I do know this: none from me. :(

I've got half-a-dozen adventures I was ready to package up. Your product would have been awesome. But even worrying, for two seconds, about what will happen to my IP once your IP gets all over it simply isn't worth it.

Sorry.
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WayneFrancis
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Posted: 08/17/2008 at 10:48pm | IP Logged Quote WayneFrancis

Yahzi wrote:
Mindy wrote:
If you're not sure whether your intended use falls within the license, you should contact webmaster@dundjinni.com with your specific questions.

No, I'm sorry, if I'm not sure whether my intended use falls within the license, I'm just not going to use your product.

I've been thinking about buying Dundjinni for years. I love the concept. But if I want to use one of my adventures in one of my novels, or vice versa, suddenly I have a problem. And board games - 4e is practically a board game already. I can publish maps for D&D but not for D&D Minis?

I understand you're trying to protect your IP. However, you've successfully protected your IP into obscurity. Every time I come back to this site I am disappointed by how small the community remains. Remember the Macintosh? Closed box. 5% of the market. Remember the PC? Open box. 95% of the market. There's a lesson in there somewhere...

Of course, the people who invented the PC didn't particularly profit off of the PC design. On the other hand, they made a lot of profit selling parts, applications, and operating systems. Dundjinni could make a lot of money selling art-packs to millions of wanna-be designers. A lot more than selling their program to a handful of people.

Google DAZ. Notice that they give their modeling software away for free. They have a completely open commercial license (I know, because my wife sells images she generates with their product). They make their money on selling models, meshes, textures, and objects. You know... art packs.

They're making a lot of money. How much money are you making? I don't know, but I do know this: none from me. :(

I've got half-a-dozen adventures I was ready to package up. Your product would have been awesome. But even worrying, for two seconds, about what will happen to my IP once your IP gets all over it simply isn't worth it.

Sorry.


So you are upset that Dundjinni Enterprises, Inc. does not license their artwork to be used in other products?

Dundjinni is a software package first that allows you to use artwork from many sources. If you make a map with Dundjinni or CS3 (aka Photo Shop) you'll have the same issues with IP. i.e. if you are using artwork from any source where you do not hold copyright then you'll need to insure that each piece's copyright allows you to use it in the way that you intend. Dundjinni makes the copyright of its artwork clear and if you it isn't clear to you we welcome you to ask.

Complaining that Dundjinni isn't free is much like complaining that CS3 isn't free. I'm sorry you are unhappy with this business model.

Dundjinni is far from a closed box. Dundjinni allows you to use artwork from any number of sources. What Dundjinni provides is a tool to allow you to create your maps faster then you would with standard graphic packages. Dundjinni Enterprises, Inc. also provides specialised art packs for your use with Dundjinni. You are always able to buy art packs for Dundjinni produced by other organisations and there are some very nice ones out there.

At the end of the day it is your responsibility to insure that the artwork you used allows you to use it in the manner you wish to use it. Dundjinni Enterprises, Inc. can not say that all artwork on a map created with Dundjinni is allowed to be for commercial work simply because Dundjinni allows users to use any artwork they may add to Dundjinni. Dundjinni Enterprises, Inc. also can not give you permission to break other people/companies IP. Again this isn't a Dundjinni problem as you would run into this same issue if you where using CS3 to create your maps.

If you write a graphic novel based on FR world then you need WoTC's permission. No matter what business model your preferred word processing package uses.

So I'm sorry you've made the decision not to use Dundjinni to make your maps as I believe Dundjinni would have been a perfect fit. I believe you think there is an issue where there really is none. I am assuming that your adventures don't break anyone else's IP/copyright/trademarks
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Kepli
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Posted: 08/17/2008 at 10:49pm | IP Logged Quote Kepli

Welcome aboard Yahzi

To add to WFs excellent post ...

eh ... I think there is a misunderstanding here. What you describe is definitely within the commercial license of using DJ; it always was. What makes you think this isn't so?

What has changed lately is that most propriety art-packs can now be used for commercial maps as well. Making commercial maps with DJ has always been possible with the user art on this forum or any other free art you can find or create.

Do you have some specific questions about the license?

Edited by Kepli on 08/17/2008 at 10:53pm


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Cisticola
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Posted: 08/18/2008 at 9:58am | IP Logged Quote Cisticola

Long time no see Yahzi....

...To echo Kepli...There is a misuderstanding here, because DJ would be ideal for your purposes.

...But what are your main concerns? The way DJ is marketed?

Perhaps DJ can give their software for free, and sell
artpacks to make their money...in fact why not just make it so that the only art you can use in DJ is the artpacks
DJ sell....yeah that sounds good.

....The creativity behind DJ success is its community...
Have a good look around the forums.....you will find
artists producing amazing objects, textures and maps on
a daily basis...what you are suggesting would stifle
that creativity....

....hope you reconsider giving DJ a go....you will not
be disappointed






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Kepli
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Posted: 09/16/2008 at 1:36am | IP Logged Quote Kepli

A final note: Mindy is the owner of Dundjinni and she IS Dundjinni Enterprises.
Us Webmasters and Moderators aren't actually part of the company

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danielpryor
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Posted: 12/01/2008 at 2:04am | IP Logged Quote danielpryor

I think one of the concerns he had was the fact possibly of being able to maybe even modify program code or have 3rd party devlopers add/remove code for improving upon the program itself? or did I read that inccorectly?
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