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Subject Topic: Should map contest postwork be allowed? Post ReplyPost New Topic
Poll Question: No, never ...
Poll Choice Votes Poll Statistics
9 [23.68%]
0 [0.00%]
1 [2.63%]
28 [73.68%]
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Bogie
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Posted: 04/03/2008 at 8:19pm | IP Logged Quote Bogie

I'm ok with either way.
I don't do any postwork on my maps once they are done, but I do edit a lot of the artwork.png's to change their color or darkness before I use them in DJ.
Every single piece of artwork on the forum was either created or modified in some kind of editing program.
So even those people who don't do any editing themselves are using edited pieces that many people have posted and then modified and or Keplified.
Only original djx art is truly unmodified. While it would be interesting to see what can be done with only the original art, I think the 10,000 pieces of art that forum users have posted is what makes our maps come alive.

I'm in favor of whatever will get the most people to post maps and art as possible, but I do like the idea that if you do any significant postwork, you should post the DJ original and the final product so everyone can see and learn from what you did.

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Kepli
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Posted: 04/12/2008 at 6:09am | IP Logged Quote Kepli

Looks like we have a few workable options here ...

1. Only use art that comes with the program (Dungeon and Wild) and no postwork.

2. Use art from the packs and the forums. No postwork.

3. Use art from the packs and the forums. Postwork is allowed for effects, but the original DJ map needs to be posted as well.

Are these the option you all also see?

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Micah
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Posted: 04/12/2008 at 8:26am | IP Logged Quote Micah

Yup - I think that about corners the market.

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nidae213
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Posted: 04/14/2008 at 11:54am | IP Logged Quote nidae213

I like the idea for very minor effects. That way, for those of us with minor PS skills, we have a fair advantage to lightly doctor a map or art piece.

I know my skills aren't great and that intimidates me and prevents me from joining the contests. I've had great ideas and inspiration, but since I have no idea what to do to polish my work, I don't bother entering seeing as someone else has a much larger upperhand.

Now, I'm not trying to say to hinder those with the talent. I know if you got it, flaunt it. But there isn't an option for those who don't.

If there were say, contest that was for post-work free maps/objects and one using post-work, then those with the PS skills can continue to shine while allowing those without the skills to shine in their own way. I feel this would make many happy. Not only the post-work happy mappers, but people like myself who lack the time/ability/what have you to make them look as professional.

Since the rules for now state that there is no post-work allowed, I feel that I can now enter a map and not feel ashamed for my lack of skill. :)
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aegean
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Posted: 04/14/2008 at 12:57pm | IP Logged Quote aegean

Kepli wrote:
Looks like we have a few workable options here ...

1. Only use art that comes with the program (Dungeon and Wild) and no postwork.

2. Use art from the packs and the forums. No postwork.

3. Use art from the packs and the forums. Postwork is allowed for effects, but the original DJ map needs to be posted as well.

Are these the option you all also see?



Option 1.

I take great pleasure in making art - as already pointed out in another thread about the EULA, there are thousands of pieces so I'm not the only one that gets their kicks from user art.

So no - this contest is for users and those users are the art producers in general.

Option 2.

Well all user art work IS post work be it rendered, modelled or PS produced or all three so having PS produced stuff THEN be denied PS doesn't make sense to me.

Option 3.

This one seems the best to me - with all post work for "mood only" which is lighting, shadows, DOF and such - no major changes - but then again any major work should be done outside DJ and imported and used as normal

to quote nidae213

"I know my skills aren't great and that intimidates me and prevents me from joining the contests. I've had great ideas and inspiration, but since I have no idea what to do to polish my work, I don't bother entering seeing as someone else has a much larger upperhand."

Well not allowing some post work also stops some people from entering - there is one excellent mapper that I believe won't enter on the grounds he can't finish his maps off.

I am thinking of entering a map this time - but should I be banned from using bespoke items not as yet posted to the forums - does having hexagon, vue and photoshop give me an unfair advantage - yes it does, but I hope that all art used and posted inspires other people to post.

And as for feeling intimidated - don't, some of my early stuff was absolute crap - get posting and get to grips with a program to do post work - it will only produce better art - there are many tutorials out there and lots of help in here.

any way, that's my rant

option 3 - POST WORK

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Micah
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Posted: 04/14/2008 at 4:44pm | IP Logged Quote Micah

nidae213 wrote:

Since the rules for now state that there is no post-work allowed, I feel that I can now enter a map and not feel ashamed for my lack of skill. :)


My bottom line is more maps, more participation. If I really thought that dropping the post-work would encourage people to enter - heck yeah - go with it.

My hang-up is that a lot of the folks who are asking for post-work free maps are people that I haven't seen enter. To counter that I've heard several well-known cartographers around here say that they would enter if the post-work was allowed. And by well-known, I mean folks more likely to enter a mapping contest.

I really do want more participation. Shoot if newbies entered a wall with a few stamped pieces, flat walls, no rotation, etc. I'd be happy that we got someone else into the fold. In fact I usually give bonus points in my own "judging process" for the gutsyness to jump in the pool.

Personally I cringe every time I get a compliment like "awesome map, I'm not even going to think about entering now." That's the absolute worst compliment ever.

So if we go with no post-work. I will anxiously wait to see some of the folks asking for that post their maps. I will certainly stand up and take notice of their desires next time they weigh in on this type of a contest poll.

Alternately, I am really hoping that some of the folks complaining about the limitations last time will jump in the ring to show support if we go the other way. Uh yeah, that would mean throw something together that isn't artistic perfection just to show that later on you will participate when the time, theme, or whatever it is that's holding you back are more in your favor. At least if the "I'd give it a try but I don't like the limitations" was anything more than an excuse.

Either way - I'm hoping for more than the minimum in participation.





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Bogie
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Posted: 04/14/2008 at 8:01pm | IP Logged Quote Bogie

As I stated before, I am in favor of whatever will get the most people to participate.
(probably option 3, though I could be wrong)

I don't feel anyone needs to be intimidated just cause they don't know how to use PS or Gimp, it is possible to make a map without any postwork that is just as good as those that have it. I don't do any postwork because
A; I don't really know how, and B: I think I do OK just using DJ. I change colors on some tiles and objects before I use them in DJ, but what User Art, hasn't been modded, Keplified, Bogified, or Herucafied.

I'm proud of my maps, I think they are pretty good considering that outside of DJ, anything I try to draw looks like a 5 year old with arthritis drew it. I like what DJ lets me create, and I like figuring out ways to get the most out of this program. At the same time, I love the maps made by Cisticola, Supercaptain, Tintagel and all the others who use postwork. More power to them! I am also thrilled to get a new Benwax map or any of the other great mappers who don't use much postwork. Doesn't matter to me, I love em all!!

In the end the people who vote will decide what they like best, and I think they will decide based on many different aspects of each map, many of which will have little to do with how the map was made.

For those who feel intimidated, don't be. We all started at the bottom.
Step up, do your best, be creative, and learn by doing. (That's what I did, with help and advice from many people here.)

To me, the most important thing is that more people should participate.

Edited by Bogie on 04/14/2008 at 8:10pm


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aegean
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Posted: 04/14/2008 at 11:41pm | IP Logged Quote aegean

Micah wrote:
nidae213 wrote:

Since the rules for now state that there is no post-work allowed, I feel that I can now enter a map and not feel ashamed for my lack of skill. :)


I really do want more participation. Shoot if newbies entered a wall with a few stamped pieces, flat walls, no rotation, etc. I'd be happy that we got someone else into the fold. In fact I usually give bonus points in my own "judging process" for the gutsyness to jump in the pool.


errr.... I have only ever produced one map - EVER, so I get extra votability from Mica

seriously, I'm dreading posting as my map is gonna be dire compared to anything I may have posted on the art threads. nidea213 has no idea the intimidation I currently feel

ae

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Kepli
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Posted: 04/15/2008 at 12:12am | IP Logged Quote Kepli

Seems option 3 has the most support. I would like to add one rule though. You need to post the non-postwork map first and then you can show what you did in postwork production. That way all "DJ only" maps will be seen first.

If there are no objections to this, we will implement this friday and I will change the rules accordingly

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Micah
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Posted: 04/15/2008 at 5:44am | IP Logged Quote Micah

No objections here Kep. I'm really hoping for more maps this time around. Crossing fingers - knock on wood. . . .

The Cartographers guild had 14 entries last month - some of them were just scanned in pencil sketches on graph paper. Still wondering how we can get that type of particpation around here. . . .

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