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Objects and Textures: Fantasy
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Subject Topic: [AR] Tree-Dragon Post ReplyPost New Topic
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wacko76
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Posted: 06/20/2008 at 3:50pm | IP Logged Quote wacko76

Hi.

I would like to request a dragon. It's a small Tree-Dragon from the german RPG "The Dark Eye". Mainly, I'm interested in top-down views, with maybe one render as a sort of portrait. Here is some data and and picture for inspiration:

Tree-Dragon:
Weight: 60 kg
Wing-Span: 3m
Body-Length: 1,25m
Tail-Length: 1,25m
Color Top: darkgreen to greenblue
Color Belly: brownish
Four Legs
Two Wings
real flight, bird of prey like
nesting in high trees
max age: 100 years
no magic, no intelligence, no speech
likes to collect blinking objects like magpies
fireodem against current opponent
no directed breath attack
Attacks with Bite/Claw, in-flight attacks, dive-attack, throw-down attack while flying (claws)



Edited by wacko76 on 06/20/2008 at 4:09pm
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pedrov
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Posted: 06/20/2008 at 6:56pm | IP Logged Quote pedrov

Okay, so a wee dragon, about 4 feet long (body) plus 4 feet of tail with a brown underside, green-blue top, but otherwise looking like a classic dragon? Sound right?

I'm not certain I have the models to do this, but I wanted to clarify the description and metric to english measurements.

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wacko76
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Posted: 06/21/2008 at 3:41am | IP Logged Quote wacko76

Yeah, thats pretty much that.

What's important is the coloring, size and wingspan since The Dark Eye does not have "generic" dragons" that simply come in all colors of the rainbow like D&D.
Maybe with a hint of cuteness? They ARE dangerous animals, but they're not "Dragons!", if you know what I mean.

Actually there are three age groups, but I guess that would be too much work. What would be nice, maybe one "portrait" render of the dragon perching on a tree, curiously scanning for blinking trinkets.
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pedrov
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Posted: 06/21/2008 at 8:20pm | IP Logged Quote pedrov

I know the colors aren't right yet, but is something like this what you have in mind?



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wacko76
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Posted: 06/22/2008 at 6:20am | IP Logged Quote wacko76

Thats quite nice already. That one would be standing on the ground, right?

He looks a bit stiff, though. A bit more suppleness maybe. I thinks its the hindlegs, how they stick out, like a cat that is stretching. Maybe bend at the knees and move the paws a bit forward?

The neck is a wee bit too long, methinks, and maybe coil it a bit?

But great work, anyway.
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dDemonicAngels
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Posted: 06/22/2008 at 8:09am | IP Logged Quote dDemonicAngels

That's fantastic Pedrov. I love the colors as is.

It does look like it's stretching with the hind legs and the neck is a bit tight. But I bet it would look different with a side view.

I love the way you whipped this together. The ridges on the back really stand out.

dDA
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wacko76
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Posted: 06/23/2008 at 3:22am | IP Logged Quote wacko76

I'm sorry pedrov.

My last reply seems to be a bit too critical. I forgot the main rule for commenting: "first something positive"

So, what I really like with that model are the wings. I love the texture on the membranes.

On a side note: I was wondering why Dragons always have their wings inserted at the shoulders. Considering a six-limbed anatomy, they should have a third pelvic-like region in the middle of the body. Why that would fuse with the shoulder region? No idea. Maybe because we humans are "tetrapodocentric" the idea of a second pelvis is too weird.

Just ranting, I'm not asking you to put the wings in the middle of the body
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Cisticola
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Posted: 06/23/2008 at 4:12am | IP Logged Quote Cisticola

....Hmmmmm....If you were to take the development of
flying mammals or birds the wing would be attached to the
forelimbs....The Dragon wings would in fact be more like a bats
with a membrane which folds back when the creature
lands on the floor....of course this would make Dragons
extremely clumsy on the ground....


...By the way....cool dragon Pedrov

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mercutio
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Posted: 06/23/2008 at 5:15am | IP Logged Quote mercutio

Funny, I had the some conversation with some people at DragonAvenue.

Pedrov, is that just the Millenium Dragon shrunk down, or is it a separate model?

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pedrov
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Posted: 06/23/2008 at 1:02pm | IP Logged Quote pedrov

No worries wacko, I was hoping to get some more input, this was just a simple top-down. I think all of your suggestions are doable. Either Wednesday or this weekend, I'll post a posed and proportioned version following you comments. I'll deal with color last.

@mercutio: Tis the subdividing mil dragon, shrunk down a bit and with more focus on the spikes along the back.

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wacko76
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Posted: 06/23/2008 at 3:58pm | IP Logged Quote wacko76

Cisticola wrote:
....Hmmmmm....If you were to take the development of
flying mammals or birds the wing would be attached to the
forelimbs....The Dragon wings would in fact be more like a bats
with a membrane which folds back when the creature
lands on the floor....of course this would make Dragons
extremely clumsy on the ground....


But you cannot take mammals or birds, they're tetrapods, whereas (most) Dragons have six limbs.

Hm, insects have their wings also inserted pretty much to the front of the thorax, there must be some flight dynamics involved there, anyone here an aerodynamics engineer? But since Dragons (the big ones at least) could not fly in reality (too heavy, wing membranes would burst before enough lift is generated) and must use some sort of telekinetic magic, this discussion just about stops here.

And pedrov, no sweat, take your time.
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pedrov
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Posted: 06/24/2008 at 2:43pm | IP Logged Quote pedrov

Another top-down, on the ground. If you have other poses in mind, let me know. Still futzing with the color.

JPG below, really just a check on the pose and proportions before I go further. Obviously the scale is off.

jpg:


Edited by pedrov on 06/24/2008 at 2:45pm


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Gunmage Krys
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Posted: 06/24/2008 at 3:20pm | IP Logged Quote Gunmage Krys

Great Dragon, but I'm serious about the roof thing!

Assuming you used DAZ, what lighting did you use on the Dragon from the Top Down . . . I really need to practice. Some of my renders are darker than I like. I just assumed they would be "lighter".
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heruca
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Posted: 06/24/2008 at 4:25pm | IP Logged Quote heruca

Looking good, Pedrov. Be sure to post a full-size version when you're done, too.
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pedrov
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Posted: 06/24/2008 at 6:14pm | IP Logged Quote pedrov

@GunmageKrys: Default lights (whatever DAZ loads with). Then I do a bit of color work in PS... usually I mess with the levels a bit. Helps to put a white and a black layer underneath the layer with the object, and then check the colors against the black background and the shadows against the white background. Probably a similar method with GIMP.

@heruca: I'll definitely add a full-sized version as well.

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wacko76
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Posted: 06/25/2008 at 10:37am | IP Logged Quote wacko76

yessir, very woot-worthy.

Maybe, since he is on the ground, retract the wings a bit. he wouldn't extend them fully while on the ground.

dunno if you can recoil the neck a bit more.

Poses:
perspective full body view, airborne and on ground, not frontal, not side-view, how do you call that: 3/4?
Airborne-view top-down, attacking (fangs and/or talons), wings slighty folded (for speed)
Airborn-view top-down, cruising, wings fully extended
Ground-view, top-down, wings slightly extended, attacking (fangs and/or talons)
Ground-view, top-down, walking, wings completely folded

Wow, what a tall order. I'm sorry pedrov, to be so demanding.
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dDemonicAngels
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Posted: 06/25/2008 at 6:30pm | IP Logged Quote dDemonicAngels

LOVE this! Great pose, much more natural and relaxed. I love the texture in the wings, you can really feel their thinness. Very nice.

dDA
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Steel Rat
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Posted: 06/28/2008 at 9:12pm | IP Logged Quote Steel Rat

Cisticola wrote:
....Hmmmmm....If you were to take the development of
flying mammals or birds the wing would be attached to the
forelimbs....The Dragon wings would in fact be more like a bats
with a membrane which folds back when the creature
lands on the floor....of course this would make Dragons
extremely clumsy on the ground....


...By the way....cool dragon Pedrov


That's known as a Wyvern, I believe.

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Steel Rat
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Posted: 06/28/2008 at 10:57pm | IP Logged Quote Steel Rat

Quote:
But since Dragons (the big ones at least) could not fly in reality


ROTFL, which reality would that be?

Here's a dragonling. Is this any closer to what you needed?



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Dragonlady
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Posted: 12/03/2012 at 4:52pm | IP Logged Quote Dragonlady

pedrov wrote:
I know the colors aren't right yet, but is something like this what you have in mind?



bump..

I can't find the gold statue version of this dragon. I have it on my computer. I'd like someone to make a silver version of this pose please! Or.. One with Santa hat and collar, Silver dragon.
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Rotten
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Posted: 12/03/2012 at 7:56pm | IP Logged Quote Rotten

Does this work?

I don't have the skills to make a Santa Hat. But I would like one, then I could add it.




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Bogie
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Posted: 12/03/2012 at 9:03pm | IP Logged Quote Bogie

Nice dragon!

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Dragonlady
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Posted: 12/04/2012 at 1:22pm | IP Logged Quote Dragonlady

Yes, very nice. Thanks again. If things work out alright you'll see the results later in the month. :)

Still need Santa hat.
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Rotten
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Posted: 12/04/2012 at 1:49pm | IP Logged Quote Rotten

I tried to make it shiny, like an ornament.

I'll try to make a Santa Hat. It's going to be pretty crude though. :)

Edited by Rotten on 12/04/2012 at 1:50pm
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Kier
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Posted: 12/04/2012 at 4:58pm | IP Logged Quote Kier

I never would have thought my first post would have been a Santa's Hat, but hey, you never know.

A little more orange than I would like, and A little rushed on the cutting, hard to do with a 6 year old falling asleep on your arm. And then again, I am a rookie at this.



Alright, I think I fixed the colors. I will leave the drop shadow to each their own preference.


Edited by Kier on 12/04/2012 at 5:40pm
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Rotten
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Posted: 12/04/2012 at 5:08pm | IP Logged Quote Rotten

Nice. I can try to fix the color tonight. With a drop shadow, the edges
may look normal.
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Rotten
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Posted: 12/04/2012 at 8:10pm | IP Logged Quote Rotten

I adjusted the color and brightness and added a drop shadow with Adobe Photoshop Elements






Thanks for posting the hat.
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Dragonlady
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Posted: 12/04/2012 at 9:51pm | IP Logged Quote Dragonlady

Rotten, the whole hat is shadowed. How about just around the edges? I like them all though. Thanks.


I've forgotten how to do it in GIMP. :( (which I don't use much, about 1 time every couple of years. :D )

Edited by Dragonlady on 12/04/2012 at 9:52pm
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Posted: 12/04/2012 at 10:34pm | IP Logged Quote Bogie

Nice work guys!

Welcome to the Forums Kier!


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Kier
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Posted: 12/05/2012 at 3:03am | IP Logged Quote Kier

Nicely done, Rotten. I have only begun working on GIMP this past week, so still learning, not to mention still working on a laptop, the little square touchpad leaves a lot to be desired for accuracy.

Regarding drop shadows, I see nearly every PNG file has them, dimension I assume on final product. Photoshop and GIMP are similar. Best to just create another layer underneath and spray with like 25% Opacity in a descending fading pattern? Or is there another way? I know in trees, I have been making a slightly larger mask and dropping a shadow in.

Thanks for the welcome Bogie.
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Rotten
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Posted: 12/05/2012 at 7:06pm | IP Logged Quote Rotten

Thanks Kier. I'm a total novice. But in the above, I used a black "glow" with about 45% opacity and 18 size. This is Photoshop Elements. Glow gives it a nice uniform edge. Before I was trying to use "drop shadow" which gives a shadow as if a light is shining on it from a certain direction, leaving no shadow on the light side.

The hats look so dark above, because I was trying to tone down the brightness. I'll give them one more go.

I don't know the GIMP equivalents. I barely can pull off what I have done.
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Rotten
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Posted: 12/05/2012 at 7:29pm | IP Logged Quote Rotten

Santa_Hats_Zips.zip

Cleaned them up a bit.







Edited by Rotten on 12/06/2012 at 6:43pm
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Kier
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Posted: 12/06/2012 at 3:31am | IP Logged Quote Kier

I don't know about anyone else, but those look done to me. You managed to tone the red down, without losing bright white. Good Job. The drop shadow thing worked great on GIMP, too easy. I don't know why I never tried it before. The "Fuzzy Glow" not so much yet, lol. But sure I will figure out in time.
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Posted: 12/06/2012 at 6:05am | IP Logged Quote mercutio

One of the things I do with gimp is select the transparent
space, invert selection, grow selection by 10 pixels or so,
feather the selection for another 10 pixels or so, then
create a new layer. I fill that selection with black, then
place the layer beneath the object and set the layer to 70%
opacity.

Then I play with it to make it right. If that doesn't work
(ie the shadow is too big or too small), I'll do the
selection/grow/feather sequence again.

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