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Objects and Textures: Fantasy
 Dundjinni Mapping Software - Forums : Objects and Textures: Fantasy
Subject Topic: Iím railroaded--another call for help Post ReplyPost New Topic
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Cecil
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Posted: 09/10/2004 at 8:31am | IP Logged Quote Cecil

I received some great advice for my bells here (I'll work on them more this weekend--I hope) so I figured that I would ask for some more assistance.

In my mental meanderings I decided that I would try to build my own rail line. Got the straight parts just fine, but I'm having a bit o trouble with the curves. If anyone can help me figure out how to draw curved rails like the ones posted below, I would be very appreciative.



A close-up of the rail itself:


--this is the part that is giving me headaches. I can make a single curve. The problem is carrying it over to that second rail on the top and maintaining the same (or at least close) rail width.

This part I can do--how can I increase the radius without increasing the rail width? Initial design in RD with shading and joints (for seamless connections) added later


Once I have this complete I also plan on using different textures--a brushed metal, newer slats, and even a pure wooden rail. I will also put the bolts in place and do a few other touch-ups.

This is sized to match the DJ versions as closely as possible, so you can have two different varieties join. Or you can show repairs.

Edited by Cecil on 09/10/2004 at 9:09am
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AntAdam
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Posted: 09/10/2004 at 8:35am | IP Logged Quote AntAdam

Don't know if this would work, but could you draw a wall and use a rail texture to fill the wall?
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Frost
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Posted: 09/10/2004 at 9:34am | IP Logged Quote Frost

Aesthetic point: the wood below the ties just does not look right; to me, at least, it does not look like wood at all.

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Ithalos
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Posted: 09/10/2004 at 12:12pm | IP Logged Quote Ithalos

One more note.

The spike heads should be right up against he rail. They hold the rail to the tie (wood beam)

I've included a few images that might help out. As you can see in one of them standard gauge between the rails is 4 feet 8 1/2 inches. That for regular railroads. Now in mine runs that we'll most likely be mapping in DJ are on the order of 2 feet to 3 feet between the rails...

The third image is of a model...






Any guess as to one of my other hobbies!

Later,

Ithalos
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ChicagoMapper
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Posted: 09/10/2004 at 12:14pm | IP Logged Quote ChicagoMapper

My suggestion would be to draw a circle in a vector program (Flash, Illustrator, etc.), then take a quarter of it as your BASE for the bend. (illustrated below)





Then you could apply the same effects you used to get the rail. If you are concerned that its the same width, then take a TINY section of each end of the curve stretching it into a straight section for horizontal and vertical.



I hope that makes sense!


Cheers,

Bart

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Cecil
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Posted: 09/11/2004 at 8:55am | IP Logged Quote Cecil

Chicago Mapper,
     Makes perfect sense to me. The problem I had run into had to deal primarily with Realdraw and my own lack of imagination. In realdraw, you can draw toroids but have no firm control over the width of the object.
    I ended up creating my own by making two filled circles and subtracting the smaller one, but due to the resizing I've done, it makes for a VERY tight curve. Might be OK for a mine, but it would be very rough for an Eberron type of thing. Then again, most of those curves are going to be long and gentle for a battlemap.

In any case, here's where I'm at currently. I'll go back and tweak the planks shortly--I'm not necessarily going for a wood look. At least some of the planks will be of stone.



Ithalos, thanks for the pointers--I'll ensure that I use them when I do an above-ground version (won't be long). The dimensions will be particularly useful, but keep in mind that it looks like you used an American standard. I know the European and Russian lines are not compatible (different gauge). That might be fun to replicate in a campaign world.

Edited by Cecil on 09/11/2004 at 9:20am
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bakermail
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Posted: 09/11/2004 at 11:35am | IP Logged Quote bakermail

I found some info that may be helpful for setting appropriate curves for tracks. Hope it helps. http://sandiasoftware.com/tutor8/Chapter%2010/10-railroad_de sign.htm

I also found a demo of track-planning software for model train enthusiasts: http://www.theliquidateher.com/3drrconceptanddesign-windows. html

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shadowchaser
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Posted: 09/11/2004 at 11:52am | IP Logged Quote shadowchaser

All that discussion about railroads and Objects got me thinking...
With all the objects that are created it will soon become an unwieldy mess.
Might it not be possible to use a wall texture for the tracks and only use the crossties as objects?
I'm a sucker with textures, I just can't get my mind wrapped around the concept of making them work (and maybe I lack the right software )
Anyways someone willing to give it a try?

That would be a nice feature request for the Jinny: Different bevel types...

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Targeteron
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Posted: 09/11/2004 at 1:14pm | IP Logged Quote Targeteron

in theory that would work shadow, but only for straight tracks, not curves. Besides the problem you would have with the bevel and shadow.

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Metajock
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Posted: 09/11/2004 at 5:14pm | IP Logged Quote Metajock

Making those radius were a pain when I did the railing sets that matched the marble tilesets. When I made them in PS, I made cirles twice the size of each of the inner and outer radius, then subtacted the inner circle from the outer circle. Kinda did it the hard way, but it worked with what I had at the time. That's the nice thing about RealDraw: it'll do it easier by using vectors. (I gotta work more with RD!!!)

SUGGGESTION: A "reality check" on the rails: My suggestion is make the turns no less than 10 (2 x 2 tiles in size). That'll be easier to make the ties (the wooden parts), and is more realistic as far as keeping the cars on the tracks; too tight a turn will derail the cars...

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shadowchaser
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Posted: 09/12/2004 at 4:33am | IP Logged Quote shadowchaser

@Targeteton
Why do you think it wouldn't work with curves?
That was exactly the point why I started thinking about using the Jinni's drawing capabilities. With the 'Curve Draw pencil this should not be a real problem..

Well that's the theory.. I'll be trying it with some makeshift artwork, just to see how it'll come out.

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Targeteron
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Posted: 09/12/2004 at 6:44am | IP Logged Quote Targeteron

it wont work because of the way dundjinni handles textures. Textures dont magically "morph" into a curve just because you draw one, the texture would still be "straight". try it with a texture that has a very visible straight line, you will see what i mean.

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AntAdam
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Posted: 09/13/2004 at 12:56am | IP Logged Quote AntAdam

Torroids i real draw - tip.

Turn on snap to grid, change the grid to 5 pixels (or whatever you want your track width to be).

Getting the inner track and outer track aligned and the same width is now a "snap" ( sorry, couldn't resist)
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shadowchaser
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Posted: 09/13/2004 at 1:05am | IP Logged Quote shadowchaser

@ Targeteron:
I see what you are aiming at, thanks for elaborating.

It's just, that a metallic surface texture should not be giving away the fact that the texture is not curving with the track.
The problem I ran into when trying to draw tracks with the 'pencil' was that I couldn't get the tracks to remain parallel.
Bugger!

Have Fun!

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AntAdam
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Posted: 09/13/2004 at 1:08am | IP Logged Quote AntAdam

In Real Draw, after getting the texture placed onto the curving track, choose one of the rounded edge "bevels" from the bevels tab to make the top of the rail slightly curved at the edges, this can resolve some of the straightness of the texture around the curves, it may be enough for what you want to do.
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Cecil
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Posted: 09/13/2004 at 1:20am | IP Logged Quote Cecil

I think I've got the track drawing down pat. Now it's just the length of time necessary to actually "build" the rails.

I'm currently working on a rather fancy set, but have the textures set aside (ie, one basic rail already built) for about four-five more options.

Have circles (curves) set for 400, 600, 800, and 1000 pixels in RD, however I usually cut these in half so the actual limit is more like 500 pixels (two-and-a-half inch inner radius). Outer radius is 412 pixels more.

I've also done an interesting shift based off just using the envelope function. See example below.
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AntAdam
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Posted: 09/13/2004 at 1:25am | IP Logged Quote AntAdam

Very nice.

Is eberron rich or just marble overloaded ?

You might want to consider posting the items when complete as separates, e.g the rails and the sleepers in separate png's to allow us all to re-texture the sleepers for wood, stone, etc.
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Cecil
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Posted: 09/13/2004 at 1:31am | IP Logged Quote Cecil

The marble is a bit of a reach, but this is a rather fancy set designed to be used for the Dwarven olympics. The mine-cart pull/push is a big draw, as is the team dodge-bolt competition (Dwarves do more than simply toss eachother around).

The games are even more fun when traps and henchmen are added in.

Marble cleans so much easier than wood.

(Anyone for a game of Nodwick?)
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Wurm
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Posted: 09/15/2004 at 9:00pm | IP Logged Quote Wurm

Are these rails uploaded anywhere? The dwarf arena was beautifully done (really liked the tunnels and hills).
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Cecil
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Posted: 09/15/2004 at 9:04pm | IP Logged Quote Cecil

Not yet--still working on some of them.
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