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Objects and Textures: Fantasy
 Dundjinni Mapping Software - Forums : Objects and Textures: Fantasy
Subject Topic: CSUAC Issues (input request) Post ReplyPost New Topic
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Cecil
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Posted: 03/19/2005 at 10:37am | IP Logged Quote Cecil

Just a few issues I wanted to cover/get your input on:

1)- Photopaint will not open some of the PNGs that have been crushed, particularly those that were created from Photopaint. These PNGs do open in PSP, but have not been tried in Dundjinni yet. I suspect they will work just fine in DJ, but will verify before posting them in a CSUAC.

2)-   Do you want floor tiles also posted as walls? This will require a considerable amount of room on your hard drives. Personally, my vote is yes. If I run out of room, I'll get a bigger harddrive.

3)-   We have a LOT of material. Do you want any of it posted in multiple locations (max of 2). For instance, in my personal folders I have forge objects posted under a generic "tools" folder and also in a "site-specific/blacksmith" folder. There are also some very nice collections out there where it would be nice to have everything in one place rather than broken out to floors, stairways, etc. (for instance, the brownstone and all the recent covers for it).

4)-   As previously mentioned, we have a LOT of material available. I'm of the mind to ignore, or save for last, most of the single-tile floors and walls unless they are of obvious use. I find that I use very few of them (too many to sort through) Your thoughts? I do not mind incorporating these on a request-basis.

Well, let me know what you want in these regards and I will build some of the additional folders if necessary. In the meantime, I'll continue with the basic breakdown. I have almost 200 MB ready to post--breaking it into zips now and will probably get some of it on the site tomorrow. I also just updated my object downloads and will probably incorporate some of this week's material in the latest batch. (Not to worry--I have a "don't forget this" folder of all the user art material that I delete from as it is added to the CSUAC--so I should catch most, if not all of the material)

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Kepli
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Posted: 03/19/2005 at 11:46am | IP Logged Quote Kepli

ad 1. I also think they will work in DJ, but can't state this as fact.

ad 2. YES "floors are walls and walls are floors"

ad 3. Multiple locations. I also have a lot of art in more than one place.

ad 4. I agree. When I see a single-tile floor I use a lot (or am going to) I will notify you.
A more obvious way to use them is as a wall. This works very well for most of them.

Remember to take a break now and then ...

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Halebop
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Posted: 03/19/2005 at 4:56pm | IP Logged Quote Halebop

No opinion on point 1 Cecil as I don't crush my PNGs.

For points 2,3 & 4 agree with all your preferred suggestions.
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Hurltim
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Posted: 03/20/2005 at 10:28am | IP Logged Quote Hurltim

Whatever you think is best!

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Metajock
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Posted: 03/20/2005 at 11:04pm | IP Logged Quote Metajock

Same as Halebop: I don't crush PNG's either, and I go with your preferred suggestions, as long as it doesn't hose your bandwidth!!!

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grimcatch
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Posted: 03/21/2005 at 8:52am | IP Logged Quote grimcatch


I actually don't think I would recommend using PNGcrush if you have software that, like Gimp, gives you control over your PNGs in the first place or one that saves PNGs at a compression level of 9 by default. Pngcrush will shave at best 1% off a PNG at compression 9. It's not worth the effort, especially if it's going to cause any compatibility problems at all. (Maps should be converted to JPG anyway, which gives much better compression than crush with only nominal loss of quality.)

OTOH if your software is lame and doesn't save PNGs with the best compression possible, you might have no choice but to crush. But I suggest you look at better graphic software before you decide to do that.

For other answers, I agree with Kepli.


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Halebop
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Posted: 03/21/2005 at 1:32pm | IP Logged Quote Halebop

I concur on PNG Crush Grimcatch. The only drawing application I use is The Gimp and as such PNGCrush just didn't provide any bang for the effort.
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Cecil
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Posted: 03/22/2005 at 12:17am | IP Logged Quote Cecil

A couple of other issues. Not really concerns, but wanted to keep everyone posted on some of the processes I'm using.

1)- Currently, all the material in the CSUAC has been crushed. At the moment, it's my intent to continue crushing the artwork unless someone indicates that they are having problems with it. The only issue I know of is that Corel Photopaint 9 will not open some of the files (have not tried 11 or 12 yet). Every other graphics application I know of seems to have no problem.

2)- I'm doing my best to limit a single folder to 10 MB of material. Once 10 MB is reached, I'll start folder #2. Please let me know if this is too small/too large.

3)- Right now it looks like the files top out at about 300 downloads. That means a 100 MB file turns into 30 GB of bandwidth. Since my bandwidth resets on the first, I'm going to do my best to maximize what can be distributed this month.

4)- I do not have visibility on how fast/slow the downloads occur from your point of view. I can normally upload a 100 MB file in about 5 min so I am assuming that downloading them is also not a significant issue.

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Kepli
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Posted: 03/22/2005 at 1:12am | IP Logged Quote Kepli

ad 4. I got the last three files in a a few minutes, so no problem here



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Halebop
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Posted: 03/22/2005 at 3:52am | IP Logged Quote Halebop

Hi Cecil,

I'm on a 2meg ADSL line here in New Zealand and downloaded your files at about 250kbs, the maximum I can achieve. So no problem from this end.
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slashdevnull
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Posted: 03/22/2005 at 5:06am | IP Logged Quote slashdevnull

re #3: So as to not completely burn your bandwidth, Cecil, maybe you should distribute the files via BitTorrent. There's information about how to set it up here.

Or, maybe we can get some people to volunteer some web space and/or bandwidth for mirroring your download site. I could probably host a mirror for the CSUAC.
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Cecil
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Posted: 03/22/2005 at 5:34am | IP Logged Quote Cecil

Right now bandwidth isn't an issue. With 300 folks downloading the files, that comes out to just less than 100 GB for the last upload.

I've got 500 GB a month set up for the site and a reserve of 500 GB that I can spread around as need be. I haven't broken 200 GB yet.

It's just that if I can get as much processed in these last few days, that leaves that much more flexibility for next month.

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Cecil
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Posted: 03/24/2005 at 8:03am | IP Logged Quote Cecil

Hurltim wrote:
You know what might be nice, if we can find some way to notify new users of the CSUAC concept so they dont have to redo their folders at a later date. I was so excited to start downloading all this beautiful artwork, I didnt catch the CSUAC link until I filled a ton of folders.


Hurltim,
After I get more than half the artwork ported over I'll make a CSUAC sticky topic. There are a couple more things to still be ironed out--like what people really want to call the thing.

I also need to make a good tutorial on how to use the CSUAC.

I have another 300 MB crushed and left my poor pooter this morning busily chomping on another 65 MB (pre-crushed size). The fun part is now re-sorting the art back into their previous folders.   

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Hurltim
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Posted: 03/24/2005 at 8:36am | IP Logged Quote Hurltim

   How about we call it "Cecil's rediculously difficult and time consuming, selfless contribution to a great mapping program and his fellow users." Not a very portable phrase, but accurate!

Better make that sticky 6 feet tall and in neon: I was like a kid in a candy store when I fist came here. Unless it bit me, I wouldnt have seen it!
(Just jokin with ya!)

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Cecil
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Posted: 03/24/2005 at 8:40am | IP Logged Quote Cecil



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slashdevnull
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Posted: 03/24/2005 at 8:53am | IP Logged Quote slashdevnull

As much as I like the idea of the CSUAC, I think it's going to be more like the "Cecil Coordinated All of These Graphics But I Changed The File Structure Once I Installed It And Broke The Conformity/Compatibility That It Provides".

Again, doesn't really roll off the tongue.

Hopefully when people install the CSUAC on their computers, they'll stop creating maps with artwork contained in other folders and just use the CSUAC structure.

We may end up with a "race condition" where people download new art from the forums prior to Cecil incorporating them into the CSUAC, place them wherever they want in their folder structure (including the CSUAC folders) and posting maps using "CSUAC art" that don't conform to CSUAC. Perhaps we can come up with a protocol to work around this potential problem.
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Hurltim
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Posted: 03/24/2005 at 9:14am | IP Logged Quote Hurltim

How about a "CSUSAC Pending" (sounds like a patent thing) folder to use until Cecil could get to it. Maybe it could be an end of month thing. (Like he doesnt have ANYTHING else to do?)

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Cecil
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Posted: 03/24/2005 at 9:38am | IP Logged Quote Cecil

slashdevnull wrote:
As much as I like the idea of the CSUAC, I think it's going to be more like the "Cecil Coordinated All of These Graphics But I Changed The File Structure Once I Installed It And Broke The Conformity/Compatibility That It Provides".


Depending on how much support it originally receives, this might be alleviated by the fact that if someone mucks with it too much, they won't be able to use the maps other people post.



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slashdevnull
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Posted: 03/24/2005 at 1:38pm | IP Logged Quote slashdevnull

Hurltim wrote:
How about a "CSUSAC Pending" (sounds like a patent thing) folder to use until Cecil could get to it. Maybe it could be an end of month thing. (Like he doesnt have ANYTHING else to do?)

It might also be possible for Cecil to chime in on the boards as to just exactly where in the CSUAC folder structure he plans on placing an item. He releases weekly, or whatever, but could (time permitting) inform daily.

Mwuuuhahahaha! See what you get for volunteering, Cecil?
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