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Webmaster J.T.
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Posted: 08/03/2005 at 12:32am | IP Logged Quote Webmaster J.T.

Questions about publishing are asked all the time. I asked Scott describe them in layman's terms with examples to reduce the amount of email I have to answer. Below are his comments.

Rules for commercially publishing your Dundjinni creation

Please, for complete and official details concerning our publishing restrictions, consult the Dundjinni EULA, which can be found at: http://www.dundjinni.com/eula.htm

1. You may publish your Dundjinni creation as long as that work contains nothing but art created by you. That is, the art that comes with Dundjinni is restricted from commercial publication.

2. The exception to the above rule is the Classic Art Pack. You may commercially publish your work using this Dundjinni art pack.

3. You may approach us to extend you an individual license. To date, we have been very restrictive on this sort of use. Monte Cook and the GDW for Warhammer are the only two entities we have extended a license to.

The infringement quiz! Letís look at 7 examples.

1. Beany creates a map and an adventure from the Wild Art Pack, prints it out, drives to his local hobby store on a Thursday night and sits down with his friends to GM the greatest adventure of his life. Infringement or no?

Answer: Not infringement. Beany can of course print and play with his creation as he likes. Where the rules start to come into place is if Beany desires to publish his creation. Meaning Beany wants to make money off of his effort.

2. Joe creates a map using the Castle Art Pack. He converts his creation to PDF and sells his map and adventure on RPGNow.com Infringement or no?

Answer: Infringement. Joe has violated the Dundjinni agreement. Joe cannot commercially publish his work if it contains Dundjinni art.

3. Juan the artist has created a map which contains only his (and other userís) objects and textures. Juan converts his effort to iron-ons for underwear, approaches Calvin Klein, and sells his creation. Itís all the rave on Madison Avenue! Infringement or no?

Answer: Not infringement. Event though Juan used the Dundjinni software to make his design, Juan has created something that does not contain Dundjinni art. It only contains his art, and the art of his community friends. His underwear empire will flourish. For examples of user art, visit the Dundjinni forums.

4. Endugu has created a map using the Dundjinni Classic Art Pack. Endugu approaches Wizardís of the Coast, and they in turn publish Enduguís creation as the next Eberron adventure. Infringement or no?

Answer: Not infringement. Since Endugu used only art from the Dundjinni Classic Pack, he is okay. The Classic Art Pack is the one exception to the rules presented here. You can use the Classic Art Pack and publish your efforts as you see fit. Endugu joins the ranks of Ernie Gygax and Zeb Cook.

5. Enduguís sister, Kamchatca, creates a map using the Classic Art Pack and one skull from the Dungeon Art Pack. She also approaches Wizardsí of the Coast, in hopes to publishing an Eberron sequel. Infringement or no?

Answer: Infringement. ANY art used from any Dundjinni art pack other than Classic violates the agreement. Even one skull.

6. Hooty McSpoon makes a map using the Dungeon & Temple Art packs. Hooty works long hours and completes his entire creation, map and adventure and all, and converts it to a PDF. Hooty then approaches Fluid, asking permission if he can publish his work by selling it on RPGNow. Fluid says it is okay, as Hooty is one talented dude, and Fluid wants to support talented dudes. Fluid signs a release form with Hooty, and Hooty sells his PDF adventure on RPGNow. Infringement or no?

Answer: Not infringement. Hooty received special permission from Fluid to publish his work. To date, Fluid has signed this special release on two occasions: Once with Monty Cook, whose PDF adventures now use Dundjinni art, and once with Green Ronin, whose Warhammer RPG book uses Dundjinni art. Fluid welcomes all completed submissions, and is selective in their approval process.

7: Borax makes a map using all Dundjinni art packs and posts it to his personal website as a digital download for free. Infringement or no?

Answer: Not infringement, BUT Borax must place the Dundjinni compass rose art on his map. He must also put the phrase, ďmap made with Dundjinni. www.dunjinni.comĒ near the download link. The compass Rose art can be found here: http://www.dundjinni.com/info/updates.htm

-Scott

Edited by Webmaster J.T. on 08/03/2005 at 12:35am


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Kepli
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Posted: 08/03/2005 at 1:28am | IP Logged Quote Kepli

funny and informative ... I like that ...

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Halebop
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Posted: 08/03/2005 at 1:51am | IP Logged Quote Halebop

Very clear. Good idea posting this all round JT.
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vandermore
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Posted: 08/03/2005 at 9:58am | IP Logged Quote vandermore

Two questions to add to the examples please:

One: Dundjinni puts out the Downloads of the Week (DotW), they are not sold by Fluid and given away for free. W00ty McW00t places some pieces of DotW in his map, that he then publishes and sells. Infringement?

Two: A user takes the DotW and runs some filters on it, and changes some colors, but it is still recognizable as coming from the DotW art. Then that user puts that art in a map that gets published for money. Infringement?

--

Thanks...
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Webmaster J.T.
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Posted: 08/03/2005 at 4:37pm | IP Logged Quote Webmaster J.T.

Good questions. Infringement and infingement. The DotW art is still copyrighted by Fluid and therefore subject to the same limitations as art from Fluid's art packs.

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vandermore
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Posted: 08/04/2005 at 9:13am | IP Logged Quote vandermore

Thanks!
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Steel Rat
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Posted: 08/23/2005 at 5:40pm | IP Logged Quote Steel Rat

I must admit I did not read the EULA when installing the software (Who does?). I realize that I should have considering I was planning on using DJ for commercial maps.

I find it rather shortsighted of Fluid to have this restriction, not sure what the concern is here. I own two other mapping programs that do not have this restriction. I'm not sure DJ will really thrive as a strictly hobby application, especially at the price.

I buy a great number of 3d objects, all of which have no restriction as to commercial use of the resulting renders, thus I am able to provide the DJ community with a large number of objects to use commerically or non-commercially. I wonder what the community would be like if none of those 3D objects allowed commercial use of their renders?

I am very dissappointed and will have to re-think supporting it further. I would be better served to concentrate on making graphics that will allow me to make commercial maps for my own RPG business, small though it may be.

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dDemonicAngels
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Posted: 08/23/2005 at 7:18pm | IP Logged Quote dDemonicAngels

SR, This is a hot-button item and has been discussed quite verbally on the forums. You should probably follow-up with comments in one of those forums since I think this thread is meant to be instructional.

Your obvious work-around is the CSUAC. One of its purposes is to identify the non-Fluid art. Any of this can be published without infringement (see #3). It even has it's own shiny CSUAC Dundjinni logo which can be used (or not) on your maps.
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Steel Rat
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Posted: 08/23/2005 at 7:26pm | IP Logged Quote Steel Rat

The fact that it's a hot button item should be a sign for Fluid. It's tantamount to Adobe saying you can't use anything out of the box for commercial images.

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Posted: 08/24/2005 at 7:37am | IP Logged Quote Steel Rat

dDemonicAngels wrote:
SR, This is a hot-button item and has been discussed quite verbally on the forums. You should probably follow-up with comments in one of those forums since I think this thread is meant to be instructional.

Your obvious work-around is the CSUAC. One of its purposes is to identify the non-Fluid art. Any of this can be published without infringement (see #3). It even has it's own shiny CSUAC Dundjinni logo which can be used (or not) on your maps.


FYI I tried searching for "commercial" only three topics were displayed, this one and two others with only two replies each. Also searched for "Infringement" and nothing was found, not even this topic with the word in it several times. So please direct me to a topic where this has been discussed in-depth.

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Cecil
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Posted: 08/24/2005 at 7:46am | IP Logged Quote Cecil

SR,
I agree with your POV in many ways. But to get to the nitty-gritty, this is the thread that has the most discussion.

http://www.dundjinni.com/forums/forum_posts.asp?TID=46&KW=co mmercial

A couple of other searches to consider are "EULA" and "Publishing"

Also, recommend checking to see if you are searching the entire post and not just the subject.

Edited by slash: made above link clickable

Edited by slashdevnull on 12/29/2005 at 8:41am


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Lalato
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Posted: 04/21/2006 at 5:16pm | IP Logged Quote Lalato

Question: I enter a contest to create a map for a miniatures tournament. I win the contest and the map is printed and used by all players at the tournament. The tournament organizers charge an entry fee to cover space rental and printing costs. Infringement or no?

--sam
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Lalato
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Posted: 05/05/2006 at 6:37am | IP Logged Quote Lalato

Lalato wrote:
Question: I enter a contest to create a map for a miniatures tournament. I win the contest and the map is printed and used by all players at the tournament. The tournament organizers charge an entry fee to cover space rental and printing costs. Infringement or no?

--sam


Did I stump you?   

--sam
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Webmaster Scott
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Posted: 05/06/2006 at 8:03pm | IP Logged Quote Webmaster Scott

Sorry I must of missed this post before.

Well, gosh darn! That's a good one! I don't know actually but at a wild guess I'd say its ok. But its such a grey area I'd have to consult a lawyer to be sure. Just for grins what do others think?

For me its in the spirit of being ok since no one is actually making profit off of it. But we've had a lot of grey area issues the past few months with print companies and such. I guess it all depends on who you ask and what they consider "profit". The tournament I assume is not for profit and just covering their expenses.

Anyway, to be honest I'm not sure.

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Lalato
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Posted: 05/06/2006 at 9:14pm | IP Logged Quote Lalato

Webmaster Scott wrote:
The tournament I assume is not for profit and
just covering their expenses.


That's correct. No profit would be made. People would be paying an
entry fee to the tournament, but it would only cover the cost of printing
the maps and the space rental.

The contest is being held over at maxminis.com, a D&D Miniatures fan
forum. The winning map will be used at the Maxminis Draft Tournament
at GenCon in August. So the entry fee goes for printing the maps and for
the use of the space at GenCon.

Anyway... if it's OK, I might enter a map. :)
--sam
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heruca
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Posted: 05/06/2006 at 11:01pm | IP Logged Quote heruca

I think the promotional value of the free publicity DJ will get makes it
worthwhile to allow it, in this case.

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Posted: 05/07/2006 at 5:05am | IP Logged Quote gtech_1

Definitely a grey area.

As long as:
They were not using just the one map (the basis of the tournament/services' profit);
They were not using it for advertising (the draw for the tournaments' profit);
They were not selling the digital maps (direct sale for profit or not)
Or selling an openly accessible, multi-customer printing service by printing your map (again, the basis of the profit);
It shouldn't be an issue.

I would tend to agree with Webmaster Scott and Heruca.
The spirit of usage seems OK, and it would be great promotional material for Dundjinni and for your mapping skills.

I would offer one suggestion: Add the Dundjinni Compass Rose to the map, just in case.

Another option: Use all User Contributed art. There are no restrictions on the art posted to the user forums. Free for personal and commercial use.

Good luck with the contest! Let us know how it turns out.
GTech

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Posted: 12/06/2006 at 9:28am | IP Logged Quote JackalopeJay

Hello, I am brand new to Dundjinni, so please forgive me if this has been covered before.

Question, I develop a Dungeon Crawl type boardgame using Dundjinni art for the prototype. I start to market my game using the DJ art, but I tell the potential buyer that the board would need new art or a license from Dundjinni.

Is it ok to use DJ art as a prototype?

Thanks to all that reply.

Jason
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Kepli
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Posted: 12/06/2006 at 10:11am | IP Logged Quote Kepli

Welcome JackalopeJay ,

By Dundjiini art I assume you mean the art that comes with the program and that you can buy in the DJ shop. We usually call that Fluid art (the company who owned DJ). The license for using that art used to be pretty strict, but because there is new management this might change soon.
So ... you should wait a little until the new license is ready, or you use user-art from this forum which is almost always royaly free (some art comes with a license, but that's only a very, very small percentage )

Hope that answered your question (until the boss comes by and gives you a better answer )

Happy mapping

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Posted: 12/06/2006 at 11:18am | IP Logged Quote JackalopeJay

Thank you for your fast response. You kinda answered my question, but not as fully as I had hoped. Let me rephrase.

I build a prototype of a boardgame. I am not making any kind of profit from my game. I am not selling it to people and I am not charging people to play. All of this so far is legal as I understand it.

Now, after months of tweaking, I think my game is good enough to market. I take my prototype to various game companies and demo the game to them. Company A decides to make my game for me. I tell them that the art on my board is copyrighted, so new art would have to be developed for it. They hire an artist to develop the board with original art.

What I believe I am selling here is an Idea (my original boardgame concept), I am using Dundjinni to demo my idea. When the game would be published, it would have no traces of copyrighted art left on it.

Is this ok or am I still considered to be making a profit off of Dundjinni?

Thanks again to all that reply.

Jackalope Jay

Kepli wrote:
Welcome JackalopeJay ,

By Dundjiini art I assume you mean the art that comes with the program and that you can buy in the DJ shop. We usually call that Fluid art (the company who owned DJ). The license for using that art used to be pretty strict, but because there is new management this might change soon.
So ... you should wait a little until the new license is ready, or you use user-art from this forum which is almost always royaly free (some art comes with a license, but that's only a very, very small percentage )

Hope that answered your question (until the boss comes by and gives you a better answer )

Happy mapping
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