Dundjinni Logo Dundjinni Logo Dundjinni Logo

Forums

Active Topics  :  Memberlist  :  Search  :  Help  :  Register  :  Login
Help Dundjinni! Rate This Website at RPG Gateway

Feedback
 Dundjinni Mapping Software - Forums : Feedback
Subject Topic: Publishing (Topic Closed Topic Closed) Post ReplyPost New Topic
Author
Message << Prev Topic | Next Topic >>
Quode2000
Hireling
Hireling


Joined: 01/17/2004
Location: United States
Posts: 1
Posted: 01/17/2004 at 10:55am | IP Logged  

This was probably covered but can we use this program to publish our own adventures?
Back to Top View Quode2000's Profile Search for other posts by Quode2000
 
Webmaster J.T.
Janni (Moderator)
Janni (Moderator)
Avatar

Joined: 12/29/2003
Location: United States
Posts: 1155
Posted: 01/17/2004 at 5:11pm | IP Logged  

My understanding is that personal use is okay. If you are going to sell maps made with Dundjinni, there is an issue with distributing our copyrighted art. I know this has been discussed at Fluid, but I'm not sure what the resolution was. Rather than speculate I will ask about this.

__________________
Webmaster J.T.
Back to Top View Webmaster J.T.'s Profile Search for other posts by Webmaster J.T.
 
SikSavant
Janni (Moderator)
Janni (Moderator)
Avatar

Joined: 12/31/2003
Location: United States
Posts: 386
Posted: 01/18/2004 at 1:50pm | IP Logged  

It seems reasonable to think that a rasterized version of any map that we might make would be ours to use royalty free (ala ProFantasy). I see a bugaboo if somebody wanted to sell the native save file format, that would essentially give away art pack elements not purchased by the map buyer. And yet, we are encouraged to make our maps available to one another...hmmmm.

You should be fine with a raster version of your map. Otherwise, just making copies of a map you made and then giving them to your friends would also be a violation of the copyright. It would be a shame not to be able to submit them to Dungeon magazine, or include them in your own PDF adventure product. Heck, that's part of the reason for owning Dundjinni in the first place!

Selling your map doesn't really deprive Fluid of Dundjinni sales. If your buyer wants more maps, they have to buy the software themselves or find somebody that already has, and contract the service.

I do not speak for Fluid! I'm sure they will be reasonable.
Back to Top View SikSavant's Profile Search for other posts by SikSavant
 
Darkness
Janni (Moderator)
Janni (Moderator)
Avatar

Joined: 01/02/2004
Location: United States
Posts: 1233
Posted: 01/19/2004 at 7:48am | IP Logged  

There is more to it than that.

The basic tile art that you use to create the floors, walls, etc would be considered the same as a pallete in any paint program. I do not think you would be violating any law by publishing a piece of art you created using another copyrighted program.

On the other hand their art that is included, basically objects, belongs to them and without explicit approval you would be violating copyright law. Most programs like this give specific approval of the use of their art for things like entering contests in magazines or single use, non-business oriented functions. Remember to violate someones copyright you need to make money from the sale of it or at least try to make money from the sale of it.

Personal use is personal use. You are free to make copies to hand out to the people you are playing with. It is the intent of the program for you to use this in your adventures with your friends. They would have a very hard time proving to a court that you violated their copyright using the software the way it was intended.
Back to Top View Darkness's Profile Search for other posts by Darkness
 
SikSavant
Janni (Moderator)
Janni (Moderator)
Avatar

Joined: 12/31/2003
Location: United States
Posts: 386
Posted: 01/19/2004 at 2:49pm | IP Logged  

Darkness wrote:

Personal use is personal use. You are free to make copies to hand out to the people you are playing with. It is the intent of the program for you to use this in your adventures with your friends.


So long as you recover those copies at the end of the day. Otherwise making copies of audio CDs for folks other than yourself should be legal, and, of course, it's not. I also don't think any publisher would let a school system buy one copy of a book, make several hundred photocopies for students, even if the school did collect the copies at the end of class.

I suppose whatever Fluid decides won't really hurt the hobbiest anyway. Professional map makers will still use Photoshop, Illustrator, Campaign Cartographer, or whatever because it's what they know best.
Back to Top View SikSavant's Profile Search for other posts by SikSavant
 
Darkness
Janni (Moderator)
Janni (Moderator)
Avatar

Joined: 01/02/2004
Location: United States
Posts: 1233
Posted: 01/19/2004 at 4:35pm | IP Logged  

You are right and wrong at the same time. Although it would be illegal for a school to copy an entire book, it is not illegal for them to copy specific information to use, such as homework assignments ect... Most copyright cases must stand on the fact that the owner lost funds from what you did. Making pictures with a program that is designed for making and printing pictures cannot and will not be considered a copyright infringement. Using Artwork would be a copyright infringement if you wished to publish the art as your own, without permission. I would think that Fluid would love for you to publish adventures as long as you stated that all maps were created using "Dundjinni" that is the best form of Advertisement there is. This too could be incorporated into their Copyright agreement, so that they would not have to make specific agreements with every user..

Remember that this is a tool for creating maps, at some point (and it is grey) the "art" now belongs to the maker. Not Fluid...

Back to Top View Darkness's Profile Search for other posts by Darkness
 
SikSavant
Janni (Moderator)
Janni (Moderator)
Avatar

Joined: 12/31/2003
Location: United States
Posts: 386
Posted: 01/19/2004 at 7:17pm | IP Logged  

I like the thought about Fluid using a "created with" tag requirement on published adventures. In fact, since Dundjinni generates HTML they could include a small graphic that links directly to the site.
Back to Top View SikSavant's Profile Search for other posts by SikSavant
 
Mindy
Djinni (Admin)
Djinni (Admin)


Joined: 01/19/2004
Posts: 644
Posted: 01/19/2004 at 7:59pm | IP Logged  

Hello all -

A word from the biz end here.

We're very pleased and flattered that people want to use our software to create commercial maps. In addition to those who have mentioned it in this forum, several large publishers have approached us about using Dundjinni in their products.

However, we hadn't really considered this use of the product until recently and so we're still trying to figure out how best to accommodate that desire. We'll certainly take your input into consideration. Right now, we're considering a range of approaches to cover the spectrum of requests but haven't reached a decision.

Regardless of our approach to commercial uses, we are committed to permitting non-commercial exchanges. We made this product so that the average Joe GM could bring his vision and adventures to life - and share them with his friends and fellow enthusiasts. So don't worry - you'll always be free to give copies of your maps and adventures to your friends.

In fact, we hope that Dundjinni users will share their maps and adventures with their community via direct file swaps or uploads to our website archive (this upload feature on our website is forthcoming).   For people who don't own Dundjinni, you can share exported html files for adventures, or exported jpeg and bitmaps for maps.   Same goes for printed versions.

For others who do own the Dundjinni software, you can share the .dja file.   What you cannot share are the individual art packs or art objects like a bathtub or a catapult or etc.

To address the issue of sharing .dja files with users who don't own the same artpacks, we've installed placeholder art icons. For example, if you make a map that uses the Catapult from the Castle Art pack, and you share that .dja file with someone who doesn't own that art-pack, then a generic placeholder object will appear in your friends .dja file in place of the catapult.   So send along the .dja file as you see fit. Just don't send the actual catapult or art pack that supports it (we've put copy protections in place to prevent this as well).

Finally, as an aside, there seems to be some potential confusion about copyright law in this thread. From a legal standpoint, all of the artwork (including textures) in the product (as well as the code itself) is protected under US and international copyright law as original works of authorship. As creator and owner of those works, Fluid always has the right to determine what rights it wishes to license and under what terms. (Thus, the right to use and copy Photoshop textures, etc. to create commercial products is granted within the terms of Adobe's license for that software - and such a commercial use license probably makes sense given the high end nature and price for that product.)

To take it a step further, when you create a map or adventure with Dundjinni, you are creating a work that combines copyright-protected material from Dundjinni (such as the artwork and tiles) with your own copyright-protected work (the design of the map and the text of the adventure). In this case, you would own all rights to your original creation (the underlying map design and adventure text) and would be free to sell that as you wish. However, except to the extent licensed by us, you would not be free to commercially exploit (e.g., sell) anything (such as the Dundjinni-generated map) that incorporates our copyright-protected materials (such as the artwork and tiles), just as we would not be entitled to sell a map you designed without your permission, even though it includes our artwork.

Hope this clears up some confusion.
Back to Top View Mindy's Profile Search for other posts by Mindy
 
SikSavant
Janni (Moderator)
Janni (Moderator)
Avatar

Joined: 12/31/2003
Location: United States
Posts: 386
Posted: 01/19/2004 at 10:43pm | IP Logged  

That clears much of it up, alright. Unfortunately, it's starting to sound like we will have to give away our adventures, rather than "publish and sell". Maybe that could be one of the benefits of the Platinum level software? Or maybe a fourth "Publisher" level is needed?

It's obvious that Fluid is putting a lot of work into this product and well deserves to recover their investment. I just hope that some terms can be reached to allow the many talented adventure authors out there to also recover some of their personal investment.

Thanx again, for the great explanation of the situation!
Back to Top View SikSavant's Profile Search for other posts by SikSavant
 
Easy Rhino
Hireling
Hireling


Joined: 01/20/2004
Location: United States
Posts: 4
Posted: 01/30/2004 at 7:27am | IP Logged  

Sounds like professionals will need to stick with Campaign Cartographer, since they have a version of their product that allows you to sell the finished rasterized maps royalty-free.

I use Adobe Photoshop and Illustrator, and I frequently use swatches, templates, and pattern brushes Adobe provides to create my artwork. I can sell my finished artwork without worrying about Adobe copyright violation. I don't see why Dundjinni artwork is any different. The customer pays for the Dundjinni toolset, and therefore the map author should own his/her creation.

With such a copyright stance, it seems that Dundjinni is trying to flex a certain level of creative ownership of all maps produced with the software.

Personally, my interest level in Dundjinni just dropped a few points after reading this thread.

What about this: can you sell your published adventure and then provide free supplemental maps created with the Dunjinni software to your customers? If that's the case, all a publisher would need to do is advertise that the adventure comes with maps, and then provide links to those maps as a free product supplement. Thus, you are "giving away" your maps while still selling your adventure.

Edited by Easy Rhino on 01/30/2004 at 7:29am
Back to Top View Easy Rhino's Profile Search for other posts by Easy Rhino
 

Page of 14 Next >>
  Post ReplyPost New Topic
Printable version Printable version

Forum Jump
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot create polls in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

Powered by Web Wiz Forums version 7.6
Copyright ©2001-2003 Web Wiz Guide

This page was generated in 0.6992 seconds.
Contact - About Us - Privacy Statement - Legal Notices - EULA
Copyright © 2003-2007 Dundjinni Enterprises, Inc. All Rights Reserved.